Under application of the swiss system> Esports it uses examples of ESL One Cologne and ELEAGUE Majors, which use the same system we use in AoE2, so it is considered a Swiss System
Under application of the swiss system> Esports it uses examples of ESL One Cologne and ELEAGUE Majors, which use the same system we use in AoE2, so it is considered a Swiss System
Yes I know. These are variations of the swiss system (with or without elimination). I think the point of using Swiss system to seed players is to have say final 8 or 16 players which can then play knockout stages. We can't have 9 round swiss system just to seed 64 players (or 7 rounds for 32) & then have all of them play knockouts. That would be like 120+ matches for 32 players or 300+ matches for 64 players.Yeah, but the system he proposed doesn't let people qualify or eliminate people from what I understand, so from round 4 onward it would look pretty different and would screw things up quite a bit.
What are forums without some hyperbole, eh?
I don’t think the idea totally tanked (still 1 more round to go) in its goal except for the match ups between Viper/Lierrey and their second and third round opponents. ....
You can have 100s of games of Chess each day. Also, the fact is a standard Chess game itself has no variables. All the variations are based on the gameplay of players. AoE is very different scenario with civs, maps, rng. etc. Agreed that Swiss system works very well for Chess Tournaments but I don't think it is applicable to esports (especially one with many variables) without any modifications.swiss system is played for 100 years or more in all chess tournaments which are not invitional or just for qualified players, it works just fine,
You can't justify it. That's true. I don't know if its unfair though. Everyone knew the draft rules several weeks in advance and if anyone wanted to be in the luxury that Viper or Lierrey (and few others are), they should have worked hard towards getting seeding higher. I'd say the seeding itself is the one that needs improvement for the whole thing to be more fair. In a single elimination type tournament like this, top seeds are always favored since they face bottom seeds. Now, if there was an upset because of this settings, would we still cry fowl? Hmm...Maybe slight hyperbole, but still... I agree, and also wrote in my post, that the effects are/were not big in practice. But you cant really justify the unfairness by the fact that everything "probably" would end same way no matter what.
C'mon, that's a very bold statement. Swiss system works OK in chess for the respective purpose but is almost never accurate for determining the exact spots. Also, you always need an additional scoring for an exact ranking. You can do this for the lower ranks but I don't think additional systems like Buchholz should ever be used to determine the winner of an AoE2 tournament. You could try to avoid that with playing a final between all players with the highest score in the end but if you end up with 6 players on top, that will take a lot of time (which you cannot plan in advance).It works very well on Chess, results are allways point on.
You can't justify it. That's true. I don't know if its unfair though. Everyone knew the draft rules several weeks in advance and if anyone wanted to be in the luxury that Viper or Lierrey (and few others are), they should have worked hard towards getting seeding higher. I'd say the seeding itself is the one that needs improvement for the whole thing to be more fair. In a single elimination type tournament like this, top seeds are always favored since they face bottom seeds. Now, if there was an upset because of this settings, would we still cry fowl? Hmm...
Why would the variations be an issue? You can still play BO5 for every matchup with the defined map & civ rules...You can have 100s of games of Chess each day. Also, the fact is a standard Chess game itself has no variables. All the variations are based on the gameplay of players. AoE is very different scenario with civs, maps, rng. etc. Agreed that Swiss system works very well for Chess Tournaments but I don't think it is applicable to esports (especially one with many variables) without any modifications.
I meant in Chess you can play one game per match-up per round & it is fine. In AoE one game per match-up will never be fair because of the variations so as you said it has to be a Bo3 at least in every match-up. So using swiss 'just' to rank the players (& not as a qualifier with eliminations) would have too many games in very short span.Why would the variations be an issue? You can still play BO5 for every matchup with the defined map & civ rules...
I meant in Chess you can play one game per match-up per round & it is fine. In AoE one game per match-up will never be fair because of the variations so as you said it has to be a Bo3 at least in every match-up. So using swiss 'just' to rank the players (& not as a qualifier with eliminations) would have too many games in very short span.
Another thing for swiss system is you cannot play next round before all of previous round games are finished (unlike knockout stages). So scheduling and managing the match-ups could become an issue. Basically more admin work.
Edit: typos
You can't justify it. That's true. I don't know if its unfair though. Everyone knew the draft rules several weeks in advance and if anyone wanted to be in the luxury that Viper or Lierrey (and few others are), they should have worked hard towards getting seeding higher. I'd say the seeding itself is the one that needs improvement for the whole thing to be more fair. In a single elimination type tournament like this, top seeds are always favored since they face bottom seeds. Now, if there was an upset because of this settings, would we still cry fowl? Hmm...
If you want a tournament with viper vs lierey final, you reach out to memb; he will do the preparations so that final has the biggest probability to happen..
If you don't want biased casting and biased tournament organizing, you reach out to anyone else, they will do a better job..