I generally avoid posting on AOEzone, but have been an active member of this community for over a year- I follow every major tournament, even qualifiers, and watch a lot of random Twitch streams/ Youtube vids/tutorials. In addition, I am Indian, but have lived in many countries- including English speaking white majority countries, so I feel like I might have unique perspective on this issue. I'm not part of any other gaming communities, and was attracted to AOE2 due to its wholesomeness, and want to do my small part to keep it that way.
To understand my point- let's say I was an Indian streamer, who did not live in multiple cultures. I am also a huge fan of rap music, so I end up dropping the n-word because my favourite rapper said it, unaware of the cultural context. Now I am playing in a game vs a famous Black aoe player, and I say "I'm going to kill that n-word"- with no ill intent, just quoting my favourite rap song. This obviously will sound wrong to the player - and most people on aoezone- but let's ignore that for now.
Let's say this offended player then makes a post on AOEzone. I now realise that the n-word is extremely offensive to a lot of people, and the correct reaction should be "oh my god I am so sorry, I didn't mean it that way, and will not say it in the future- I just learned it from rap, but will be better in the future/ potentially educate myself. Thanks for sharing, and sorry for the hurt it caused you/ anyone else".
Calling PoC monkeys is also a racial slur- and maybe ignorance of it is why Naomi/Spring said it in the first place. Once it is pointed out that this is offensive to a large segment of people- with good reason- even famous footballers are racially abused with this slur- they should stop using it.
How NOT to react to the situation (replacing 'monkey' with n-word):
1) Making monkey sounds is fun = Saying the n-word is fun
2) I have monkey stuff all over my profile= I like saying the n-word a lot, it was not directed at you
3) Gabi should have DM'd spring first, asking about monkey sounds= You should DM people saying the n-word asking why they said it
4) Gabi posted here about monkey sounds just for attention= Black person complains about n-word just for attention
5) Gabi should apologise as Naomi/Spring are not racist= I used n-word due to listening to too much rap, you should apologise to me
^I hope the above examples show how ridiculous this is...
While 'monkey' might not be considered that offensive in your culture, it is in many others. The way you wouldn't let an Indian person freely use offensive terms in your culture (e.g. n-word from rap music), you should not be using offensive terms from other cultures, or at least stop when corrected- as no one's culture is superior to anyone else's- so we should be doing our best to not hurt others' feelings.
I don't like this "I am not a racist" kind of argument, as it's not a binary thing, we all have ways to grow/learn/evolve. I kind of find it shocking that neither Naomi/Spring have committed to not doing monkey related stuff due to its deep historical/current links to racism, and that the rest of AoeZone feels like gaslighting, even when multiple people have spoken up to confirm it is a slur. If you are interested in debating that point, then read about the history of racism, and the link should be obvious.
I hope the community moves back to its wholesome ways of- this makes someone feel bad let's avoid it- rather than the typical internet problem of "I don't care if someone is offended, it's my RIGHT to make monkey noises!" I'm open to a well reasoned discussion/questions, not open to trolling.
To understand my point- let's say I was an Indian streamer, who did not live in multiple cultures. I am also a huge fan of rap music, so I end up dropping the n-word because my favourite rapper said it, unaware of the cultural context. Now I am playing in a game vs a famous Black aoe player, and I say "I'm going to kill that n-word"- with no ill intent, just quoting my favourite rap song. This obviously will sound wrong to the player - and most people on aoezone- but let's ignore that for now.
Let's say this offended player then makes a post on AOEzone. I now realise that the n-word is extremely offensive to a lot of people, and the correct reaction should be "oh my god I am so sorry, I didn't mean it that way, and will not say it in the future- I just learned it from rap, but will be better in the future/ potentially educate myself. Thanks for sharing, and sorry for the hurt it caused you/ anyone else".
Calling PoC monkeys is also a racial slur- and maybe ignorance of it is why Naomi/Spring said it in the first place. Once it is pointed out that this is offensive to a large segment of people- with good reason- even famous footballers are racially abused with this slur- they should stop using it.
How NOT to react to the situation (replacing 'monkey' with n-word):
1) Making monkey sounds is fun = Saying the n-word is fun
2) I have monkey stuff all over my profile= I like saying the n-word a lot, it was not directed at you
3) Gabi should have DM'd spring first, asking about monkey sounds= You should DM people saying the n-word asking why they said it
4) Gabi posted here about monkey sounds just for attention= Black person complains about n-word just for attention
5) Gabi should apologise as Naomi/Spring are not racist= I used n-word due to listening to too much rap, you should apologise to me
^I hope the above examples show how ridiculous this is...
While 'monkey' might not be considered that offensive in your culture, it is in many others. The way you wouldn't let an Indian person freely use offensive terms in your culture (e.g. n-word from rap music), you should not be using offensive terms from other cultures, or at least stop when corrected- as no one's culture is superior to anyone else's- so we should be doing our best to not hurt others' feelings.
I don't like this "I am not a racist" kind of argument, as it's not a binary thing, we all have ways to grow/learn/evolve. I kind of find it shocking that neither Naomi/Spring have committed to not doing monkey related stuff due to its deep historical/current links to racism, and that the rest of AoeZone feels like gaslighting, even when multiple people have spoken up to confirm it is a slur. If you are interested in debating that point, then read about the history of racism, and the link should be obvious.
I hope the community moves back to its wholesome ways of- this makes someone feel bad let's avoid it- rather than the typical internet problem of "I don't care if someone is offended, it's my RIGHT to make monkey noises!" I'm open to a well reasoned discussion/questions, not open to trolling.
Last edited: