I believe they should lose the bonus as they already are very powerful without it. Move it to another civ.
French vineyards say hi.Please take away the berry picking bonus, what history is there to support this being a Frankish only bonus?
That's more akin to farming (agrarian society) than gathering wild berries which is what berries in the game represent (like boar represents wild animal hunting).French vineyards say hi.
Good point but remember Franks are really good across all elo ranges from total noob to high level pro. Chinese, Aztecs, Mayans, and Vikings are significantly more challenging for lower levels.Of course they do.
Franks are perfectly fine as they are.
Other civs massively need nerfing yet I don't see posts on the forums every day about Mayan ressources lasting longer, Vikings' free hand cart (the single most busted bonus in the game), or Chinese' tech discount.
Archer civs already outrageously dominate the meta right now, no need to further nerf one of the few cav civs that can compete sometimes...
And one of them being a notorious pkt civ picker, abusing Franks to be precise.i wonder why the View attachment 192313 are getting so worked up about someone daring to suggest nerfing one of the game's top civs kinda weird
That's not quite true, if you sort by elo ranges on aoestats Franks fall to 7th on Arabia winrate for 1650+ players (8th overall on all maps). And I would wager that if there was a 2000+ category we would see that drop even more.Good point but remember Franks are really good across all elo ranges from total noob to high level pro. Chinese, Aztecs, Mayans, and Vikings are significantly more challenging for lower levels.
I myself am a pretty mediocre player (circa 1250) and have a hard time getting the most out of Chinese, Vikings and the meso civs. In regards to the meso civs, sometimes the Eagle spam works, sometimes it doesn't.
But when I random Franks, I already feel bad for the opponent. I can't remember the last time I lost with them. Almost feels like cheating.
I don't see what you mean.i wonder why the View attachment 192313 are getting so worked up about someone daring to suggest nerfing one of the game's top civs kinda weird
Why is there not a 2000+ category?And I would wager that if there was a 2000+ category we would see that drop even more.
According to https://ageofanalyticz.com/global ,in 2k-2k5 games, Franks are joint-7th in win rate. Behind civs such as Chinese, Mayans, Malians and even Indians. Might be worth noting that this for all maps though.People citing win rate need to remember that play rate also matters because high play rate tends to depress win rate relative to "real" strength just as low play rate tends to inflate it.
Why is there not a 2000+ category?
Definitely appears to be a case of being weaker or at least more manageable the farther up the ladder you go. I wonder how much of this has to do with the relative weakness of scout rushing at higher levels where players are better at walling earlier and better at not tanking their eco while managing the extremely tedious task of running pikemen around and juggling villagers to mitigate the damage caused by scouts that do get in.According to https://ageofanalyticz.com/global ,in 2k-2k5 games, Franks are joint-7th in win rate. Behind civs such as Chinese, Mayans, Malians and even Indians. Might be worth noting that this for all maps though.
From 1k5 to 2k, they are first, with 54% win rate. But only 1% higher than Celts and only 2% higher than 5 other civs.
How do you do with Vikings? To me this just suggests you're better with archers than cavalry or infantry/siege. Though I suppose you are right around the level where the power of the scout rush starts falling off to the quickwall meta.don't think they're that strong. As a 1500 player I do better with Mayans and Britons generally.
I wouldn't even mind if they were buffed elsewhere to compensate removing the berry bonus, as long as it isn't an early game eco bonus.
The cheaper castle is very much not needed.
?for identity
And Chinese had gunpowderIt is part of their identity. Few civs in history built better castles than the French.